ONLINE DISCUSSION
How can Vietnam ensure social inclusion between now and 2035?
From 2:00 to 3:00 PM on February 3, 2015,Dang Nguyen Anh, director of the Institute of Sociology, and World Bank senior economist Gabriel Demombynes held a live chat on priority initiatives to help Vietnam have an inclusive society in 20 years time.

The live chat will be conducted in Vietnamese and the English version will be published in the next few days.

Since the start of Doi Moi, Vietnam has sustained high growth without substantial increases in inequality, a feat few countries at any level of development have managed. Tens of millions have been lifted out of poverty. The country has also made impressive improvements in health status. The vast majority of children are now in school, and their international test results surpass those of a number of OECD countries. Vietnam has also put in place a nascent pension and social safety net system. These accomplishments have made for a remarkable record of inclusion as Vietnam has launched itself out of the ranks of low income countries.

Vietnam now faces the complex demands required for a transition from a lower-middle income to a modern industrialized country. Moreover, Vietnam faces a changing domestic and external environment, including a rapid demographic transition, a labor market exposed to increased global competition, new health challenges from non-communicable diseases, and shifting societal expectations of the state.

Vietnam is at a critical juncture. At this stage of development, many countries have made bold decisions to move forward, while others lag behind.

Advanced economies like Korea, during their transition, have shifted focus from moving people out of absolute poverty and providing basic services towards promoting equality of opportunity for all. This means higher quality and wider coverage social services, better job opportunities, and adequate and sustainable social protection. Inclusion will mean not just a concern for the poor but also ensuring opportunity for the growing middle class.

From 2:00 to 3:00 PM on February 3, 2015, Dang Nguyen Anh, director of the Institute of Sociology, and World Bank senior economist Gabriel Demombynes held a live chat "How can Vietnam ensure social inclusion as it becomes a modern market middle class economy between now and 2035?” on this website. The live chat will be facilitated by Dang Hoang Giang, Deputy Director of Center for Community Development Studies (CECODES).

What, specifically, should be the priority initiatives to help Vietnam have an inclusive society in 20 years time? join our discussion!

CONTENT
 
Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
Our time is over. Unfortunately, we cannot address all questions. I hope that the live chat has provided useful information. I hope that we all will further think about various aspects of the topic to improve social inclusion in Vietnam.

Mr. Gabriel Demombynes replies:

I enjoyed the conversation very much.Thank you all for your interest and participation.Unfortunately, we could not answer all the questions due to time constraints.If you have any additional questions, please send them to me (in English or Vietnamese) via Twitter at @gdemom.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
The last question to Mr Đặng Nguyên Anh. What, do you think, are the three biggest institutional challenges to social inclusion?

Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh  replies:

The first challenge relates to the discriminate treatment of different types of economic ownership that should have been removed since long time. Backed-up by more concessional access to land and financing, SOEs tempted poor investments resulting in the enrichment of a few individuals and interest groups while very few jobs have been generated for the people. The rich and poor gap has widened rapidly as a consequence.

Secondly, Vietnam has not intervened early enough to address the current bold contrast between rich and poor. The 10% poorest group only accounts for 4% national income and expenditures while the same figure of the 10% richest group is 30%. The income difference between these two groups is 8 folds. In addition, rural-urban gap is widening fast but not appropriately addressed at the moment. Rural laborers go to seek jobs in cities and add to the army of urban poor. After 30 years, farmers remain the group to benefit least from the reform and development.

Thirdly, unfair recruitment of talented people is another major barrier to social inclusion. Unqualified people, both in terms in ethical qualities and professional skills, by various channels are put in important positions which give them power and benefits but cause a great amount of waste and loss to the nation’s wealth. Worse is that this frustrates social positive attitudes, undermines trust and has a negative impact on human resource quality and economic development. I believe that some radical reform is needed urgently in the field of human resource development.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
The last question to Gabriel. How would corruption and interest group affect social inclusion?

Mr. Gabriel Demombynes replies:

It is clear that corruption is an obstacle for social inclusion in many ways. First, demands for bribes can limit access to health and education to only those who can pay. This is unjust and an obvious problem for social inclusion. Second, the theft of public money reduces the funds available for social programs. Third, the perception that some people obtain their position or wealth through corruption can undermine trust in institutions and create social unrest. We discussed some of these issues in an analysis of perceptions of inequality that we published in the July 2014 Taking Stock report.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
There is an interesting question from Mr Đỗ Đức Chi: Should we expect richer people in Vietnam to contribute more, for instance, by paying more taxes? Mr Đặng Nguyên Anh, please.

Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh  replies:

Vietnam encourages people to become rich in a proper and legitimate way and Vietnam also promotes social equity. It is reasonable to expect more contribution from rich people because as they make more money, they also need to bear higher responsibility to share risks with the rest. The personal income tax and asset tax systems should be able to collect higher amounts [from rich people] and the state would redistribute it towards social security and social assistance programs. This should provide more support to disadvantage groups, including those affected by natural catastrophes. By 2035, Vietnam would hopefully be a modern middle-income economy and the size of its rich, and middle class will be bigger. It is important that this majority group assume more responsibility towards the minority poor in the society.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
Now we would like to answer the question of Mr Phan Mạnh Tuấn: what are the success or failure factors of a mechanism that ensures social inclusion? Share with us a case to demonstrate how problems have or have not been solved? What are the most challenging areas in promoting or maintaining social inclusion? Gabriel, please.

Mr. Gabriel Demombynes replies:

There is no single recipe for success in social inclusion. My observation is that what matters is a genuine effort on the part of government, and that all members of society have a voice. Vietnam has been considered a successful case of social inclusion since Doi Moi. But past successes are not a guarantee of future performance. In the 2035 report, we are examining the new and different challenges of social inclusion the country faces going forward.

There are many countries that have not been so successful at social inclusion. For example, in many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, where I used to work, policies have benefitted a small elite. The institutions in many of those countries exclude the voice of many members of those societies.

I also wanted to share a few thoughts questions on the question Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh answered above about tradeoffs between growth and social inclusion:

Many people used to think that there was a strong tradeoff between inclusion (or equality) and growth. But the consensus among economists is now that many policies both foster inclusion and boost growth. In particular, improving access to opportunity for all members of society is recognized as vital to growth. If some citizens do not have adequate nutrition or access to education, they will not be able to fulfill their potential, and this will depress growth.

Additionally, the policies that help people better manage risk can help boost growth. For example, people may be afraid to leave their family farm and pursue opportunity in a city because of risks of unemployment or sickness far from the family. If society can help insure against the risks, people can be empowered to migrate or move into more productive jobs, which can increase growth.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
Mr Đặng Nguyên Anh, how much social inclusion is be enough? Does social inclusion mean sacrifice on the site of economic growth?

Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh  replies:

Social inclusion should have no limit. But there must be a minimum level of inclusion in society because it ensures social cohesion, a very important precondition for a society to survive and develop.

In fact, we should not see things that way, i.e. we should not see social inclusion as a trade-off to growth. On the contrary, growth of income, employment, opportunities etc. is a required condition for social inclusion. For instance, enterprises development would provide better jobs to the youth and hence contribute more to poverty reduction and enhance social inclusion.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
Gabriel, what are major issues of social inclusion in Vietnam?

Mr. Gabriel Demombynes replies:

For the 2035 we are thinking about two classes of issues. The first is about ensuring that the least fortunate are included. The second is about protecting all members of Vietnamese society from the new risks that the country faces in a modern, middle class market economy.

The first set of issues is familiar. It includes questions of equality of opportunity, for example basic nutrition, education, and access to other services.

The second set of issues includes broader elements of social inclusion. Key issues we are examining for the 2035 report include the system of support for the elderly, the social safety net, health insurance, and labor market institutions. As Vietnam becomes a middle income, middle class society, two things change. Vietnamese face new risks. They also have new expectations for what the government will do. This will require policy changes.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
As such, social inclusion primarily relates to economic matters. Or, does it involve other aspects such as political or cultural ones? How can we measure social inclusion?

Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh  replies:

 

This starts with economic aspects because they reflect equal opportunities in development, resources, employment and income. But social dimensions are also very important. There could be economic inclusion without social inclusion. Let’s take workers in some industrial zones as an example: while their incomes could be commensurate with what they deliver at work, but their cultural and spiritual life is poor and their level of social inclusion remains very low.

OECD has put forward indicators for measuring social inclusion that take into account people’s participation, the rights to access basic social services such as information, education, health, employment and legal services. These indicators reflect the equal voice and contribution as well as the share in growth benefits of all people regardless who they are.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
And Gabriel, how should we understand the concept of social inclusion?

Mr. Gabriel Demombynes replies:

I don’t have any view on the choice of terminology in Vietnamese. I do not have a comparative advantage in this area. We think about social inclusion in a very broad sense, not just economic. Social inclusion means that every member can participate fully in the society and enjoy all the benefits and opportunities of the society.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
Our today’s topic is social inclusion and my question to Mr. Đặng Nguyên Anh is: what does this mean in the Vietnamese language? How do we understand the concept?

Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh  replies:

There is no original word in the Vietnamese language that perfectly matches social inclusion. Some refer to it as "social integration” (hòa nhập xã hội) while others refer to it as "growth for all” or "social embracing” (bao trùm xã hội). One could translate it as "social equity” as well but this is not correct either, because social equity is the end target that we aim for. I refer to social inclusion as "growth for everyone” or "avoidance of social exclusion”.


Đặng Hoàng Giang giang.dang@gmail.com asks:
Hello everybody. Let’s start the live chat. I am Dang Hoang Giang. Today we have great honor to discuss with Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh, Director of Institute of Sociology and Mr. Gabriel Demombynes, World Bank Senior Economist.

replies:

The two guests are ready to answer your questions now.



Nguyen Tri Dzung dzung.nguyentri@gmail.com - Address: Hai Ba Trung district, Hanoi - Vietnam asks:
Is it feasible for Vietnam to ensure social inclusion between now and 2035 without a strongly radical reform on both its politics and economic restructure? Vietnam needs a critical reform where it brings more qualified participation of different social groups, especially from private and rural sector and ethnic minorities in process of social economic development planning, resources allocation, monitoring the state budget expenditures and income redistribution. Also, it is necessary to have a strong commitments and actual actions (under monitoring of civil society and media) from the political system (the government and the party) toward freedom of social debates and feedbacks on important laws and policy formulation and implementation, also decision-making process.

Phan Mạnh Tuấn tuanconsultant.vietnam@yahoo.com asks:
1. What are the factors for success and failure of inclusive mechanism in practice ? 2. Please share a case of failure and how the its problems solved/not solved 3. What is the most difficult moves in the process of promoting/fighting for the inclusiveness ?

Giang Pham asks:
In order to cover more social services and social protection in the next 20y, the Gov. has to invest much more in infrastructure development right now, while the national budget becomes tighter over time. How do you think the VNese Gov. can handle these things?

Giang Pham giangquynh2001@yahoo.com asks:
What do you define the term social inclusion in more details?

Linh linh@gmail.com asks:
How do you define “social equity”? is that the equality in labor, in opportunities to suscess or in benefits? Why do the rich have to pay more tax than the poor given that they have the same 24h a day? Why do not we apply the same tax rate for everyone? Whoever has more ability, luck and hard working can be more successful. What is your opinion about these issues?

Đỗ Huyền dohuyen@gmail.com asks:
1. Dear Mr. Gabriel, what is the mid-level of modern market in the context of Vietnam? 2. It is usually difficult to achieve social equity in any nation. Even in socialism oriented country like Vietnam, we see that “equity” is only the slogan to build a equitable, democratic and civilized society. From your point of view, Mr. Dang Nguyen Anh, what should we do to ensure equity? 3. The issues in the Report should not be too general and too large. It should start from how to ensure social equity, and inclusion, middle-income trap issues.

Nguyễn Thị Minh minhthach55@gmail.com - Address: Hoài Đức, Hà Nội asks:
It is not sure for the best graduates to get a decent job. To get a job in the state agancies, applicants usually have to own a so-called the “special relationship” with high profile officials. The purpose of geting a position in the state agencies is to make a living rather than to use his capability to contribute to the national’s interest. As a result, he tends to resist his tenue as long as possible. My suggestions is: fair competition should be applied for applicants to get a job in the state agencies so we could improve the public services. Thank You.

Le Thi Kim Thoa lethikimthoa_hmu@yahoo.com - Address: 56/221 Giap Bat, Hoang Mai, Hà Nội asks:
20 years for Viet Nam to reach, what are the short, mild and long term strategies from moving people out of absolute poverty and providing basic services towards promoting equality of opportunity for all. What are the main causes of poverty? What are the rols of the Viet Nam goverment at different levels in solving these problems? What are the needed policies would be taken? In the report, we need these anwsers.

replies:


L N Bhola Lnb.Odiex@gmail.com - Address: Bhubaneswar-India asks:
1.ASEAN-India FTA tell us ''Vietnam has all possible resources to gain higher GDP growth in years to come''! Its Leadership should put a vision paper and work backwards to achieve ''higher growth target! Thanks L N Bhola entrepreneur-Exports-Imports & Global Trading India

John W. McCoy jwmccoy@ozemail.com.au - Address: Medlow Bath NSW Australia - currently in Vietnam asks:
For this achievable process, the Vietnamese must also focus on the rationalization and updating of the Vietnamese banking systems specifically in policies and procedures flowing from the State Bank of Vietnam down to all the banks and specifically in the larger government owned banks. Is there a specific focus on the changes required for the banking system to benefit and influence the economic changes required for Vietnam? Is there a focus on the economic and financial growth objectives for the smaller enterprises moving upwards in the growth pattern?

To Nhien ntnhien@hotmail.com asks:
On 10/12/2014, the World Economic Forum was published the Global EAPI 2015. The EAPI evaluate 18 indicators defined across each side of the energy triangle: economic growth & development, environmental sustainability, and energy access & security. Vietnam was ranking 77th/125, the indicators of Vietnam'' energy triangle increase but in general Vietnam backwards 2 steps compare to the year 2014. Energy reform is required to build future resilience & enable sustained growth, Energy Reform is a “must” & not a “nice to have” for industrialized country. What the GoV will do on energy reform strategy for Vietnam when the Directorate of Energy under MOIT doesn'' have Energy Database System? Remember, reliable & sufficient data analysis is crucial for feasible policy making & strategic plans.

To Nhien ntnhien@hotmail.com asks:
On 10/12/2014, the World Economic Forum was published the Global EAPI 2015. The EAPI evaluate 18 indicators defined across each side of the energy triangle: economic growth & development, environmental sustainability, and energy access & security. Vietnam was ranking 77th/125, the indicators of Vietnam'' energy triangle increase but in general Vietnam backwards 2 steps compare to the year 2014. Energy reform is required to build future resilience & enable sustained growth, Energy Reform is a “must” & not a “nice to have” for industrialized country. What the GoV will do on energy reform strategy for Vietnam when the Directorate of Energy under MOIT doesn'' have Energy Database System? Remember, reliable & sufficient data analysis is crucial for feasible policy making & strategic plans.

Ngô Thị Lan Phương lanphuongscode@gmail.com - Address: 16/369 Quynh Alley, Hai Ba Trung, Hanoi asks:
Chúng tôi hy vọng năm 2035, Việt Nam sẽ trở thành một nước có mức thu nhập trung bình khá, không còn người nghèo khổ. Nông dân không phải lo lắng nhiều đến biến đổi khí hậu vì ngay từ bây giờ, chính phủ đã có những chính sách thích ứng và giảm thiểu biến đổi khí hậu. Một trong những hành động thiết thực là lồng ghép BĐKH vào KH phát triển KTXH địa phương. Các địa phương cần được trang bị kiến thức kỹ năng để có thể lập kế hoạch có sự tham gia của người dân đồng thời gắn các yếu tố thích ứng BĐKH vào mọi lĩnh vực của cuộc sống. Để làm được điều này, chính phủ cần sự phối hợp của các tổ chức nhân dân, XHDS (NGO) để góp phần thúc đẩy tiến trình, bởi các tổ chức này luôn có những thế mạnh trong việc phát huy nội lực cộng đồng ở cấp cơ sở - và đó là mảng còn yếu của các cơ quan nhà nước.

Dinh Khanh Le le.dinh@mekongeconomics.com - Address: 9B, Yen The, Nguyen Thai Hoc, Dong Da, Ha Noi asks:
Service sector is contributing significantly into Vietnamese industrialization process, of which logistics sector is one of four key factors of services industry. However, there has been overlaps between governmental authorities in controlling logistics activities, unclear regulations and international commitments and many other problems make Vietnamese logistics firms hardly compete with foreign companies. Does Vietnamese government have any strategies and plans in upcoming years to deal with these issues?

The discussion ended. Thank you!
 
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